Curse

targetdrone · Apr 09, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

IMO it doesn't look like they really listen to either.

When people complained about code=007 problems to them they kept denying things and kept asking players to run their stupid network test tool (when nothing was changed at the player or ISP end - the only thing that changed was at GW/Anet). They finally fixed it after _months_.

They ignored decent suggestions for fixing leeching in Fort Aspenwood (PvP).

They would have had a better PvP "scene" if they'd just unlocked everything for PvP (skills, mods, runes, etc- EVERYTHING) - nobody plays Counterstrike for the joy of unlocking access to the AWP (or spends hours in Quake PvE so that they can use the railgun for PvP). Sure now you can spend extra money to unlock skills for PvP, but it's still BRAINDEAD that you need to unlock stuff. I thought it's all about skill and not grind. PvP players get a sense of "reward" from winning, higher rankings, fun battle, NOT unlocking access to Rune of Superior Whatever. All that unlocking crap just gets in the way of the real PvP game.

Then the recent SR change doesn't even hurt "spirit way" teams that much, and is considered bad by 72% of the players in this poll: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10139355

Basically it has upset a lot of PvE players while not even fixing the problem the PvP players were complaining about. Doh.

Doesn't even look like they test stuff properly before releasing. Look at the _obvious_ graphics bugs, Treasure Chests problems, crashes.

Or even think about things thoroughly:

I don't see why they are so keen on preserving the Spirit Way tactic - that is the only reason I see why they changed SR the way they did - they wanted "spirit way" to stay and just be weakened. But IMO it's not something so wonderful to preserve for future generations of GW players. People grumbled about Searing Flames, but there were plenty who had fun beating "Yet Another SF" team.

They miss a big difference between PvP and PvE play.

If you nerf a PvP build because it's being "abused", a PvP player will just go "oh well" and find another build to _abuse_. That's all part of PvP - you look for imbalances ("advantages") all the time, if you find them you use/abuse them till they are fixed or nerfed. Ritualists buffed to ridiculous levels and Elementalists nerfed? No prob. delete PvP Ele and create a PvP Rit.

But PvEers are a different breed. Sure they want new content, BUT they don't want the old content to vanish/change drastically. They want to keep their stuff - greens, skills, characters, golds, minipets (and that's how Anet can make money from them and why there won't be an auction house - they want item liquidation to be inefficient - so people will just buy more storage rather than spend hours trying to sell stuff they can't bear to delete).

If you keep changing/breaking things too often/much PvE players may make a drastic change and play a different game instead.

PvP? Most will keep playing as long as you keep the servers running well, the game not too imbalanced (perfect balance was not important - everyone wanted the rocket launcher in quake 1

) AND make sure that cheating, griefing and leeching is at a minimum.

But hey, nobody listens to me either

.

EternalTempest · Apr 09, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

There NOT going to do UAX (Universal Access Unlock). There still dealing with the fallout of doing that *once* during the next to last original GuildWars *BETA* event before it went live. They do offer the ability to buy UAX skills for each campaign in the online store.

In regards to UAX and GW2.. that I can't say.

ca_aok · Apr 09, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Until recently I could say the PvEers always got the short end of the stick. PvP nerfs kept ruining PvE builds, and the only "new content" we were receiving was weekend after weekend of changing a few numbers in their database and having a 2x something weekend. Things such as hard mode sound much more promising. We'll finally be able to max our sunspear and LB titles.

However, this begs the question of why we weren't able to do this in the first place. People have been begging for months and now we finally have vague promises of an update sometime in the future. Where is the auction house? Where is the unrestricted access to UW/FoW and canthan elite missions? What ever happened to the suggestions of people that PvE monsters should actually have balanced skill bars instead of having an elite and two other skills and spawning as level 28 with crap like enraged? PvE could be a much deeper game if monsters were level 20 and had balanced groups and skills, instead of throwing 50 level 28 monsters at us at once, and calling it difficult. Which it is. But it sure as hell isn't any fun. (Note... mesmers would be much more useful in PvE if shutdown was important).

As for people quoting the 50 new PvE only skills as proof they're separating PvE and PvP balance.... that's only five new skills per class, and they're all likely skills such as disarm trap or sunspear rebirth signet that don't have a mammoth impact on the game. Don't be expecting a new 500 damage searing flames skill or anything along those lines.

Whenever PvE crowds complain about something, it gets overlooked. The primary example of how PvP wins out in the end? Changing HA back to 8v8. They didn't want to do it, but they made the change anyway to please their PvP crowd. People have been complaining about favor as a broken system since the beginning of guild wars, and they still haven't touched that.

Bryant Again · Apr 09, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

PvP.

And Ca_aok is a person who knows what he's talking about.

Narcism · Apr 09, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca_aok

Whenever PvE crowds complain about something, it gets overlooked.

If you look at people's reasoning's behind why Searing Flames SHOULDNT have been nerfed, and why AoE skills/spells SHOULDNT have been nerfed, you will quickly see reasoning why PvE crowds might get overlooked.

Mr Toraan · Apr 09, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

pvp obviously.

Members of top pvp guild knew that this soul reaping nerf was coming, because they were consulted about the change and/or alphatested the change.

No PvE player has that kind of input.

Are you kidding me? Every player in this game has the opportunity to talk with the devs they just have to be smart enough to know where to find them. For instance LuLu, Morello, and Izzi are in #gwp on the GameSurge network quite often. Anybody can whisper them and while they might not always respond they are at least there. Us PvPers have to go out of the game, most of the time, to talk with our devs; we don't have a Gaile like you guys do.

Also, the last time I checked every PvP alpha tester was kicked out of the test because ANet wants to do more open tests. So that is not a valid point.

I was mainly a PvEer for the longest time and I'm sorry if this post seems to be putting down PvE players. It just really ticks me off that PvEers feel the need to complain because ANet had to try and make the game balanced for us. There was a competitive series worth $100,000 just announced; the game better be balanced!

omens · Apr 09, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

PvPers have the most to moan about, if stuff is unbalanced, with something plainly stronger pvp suffers. Pve needs balance updates, if only to move the meta.

Really if pve never changed noone would care, I certainly dont play pve for changing builds everyday, and countering skills on a daily basis. Pve doent need balance updates

CassiusDrehyg · Apr 09, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

I think ANet should consider the PvP crowd more when balancing skills. PvP players tend to have a greater knowledge of the skills overall, and will know where something is good to exploit (New Auspicious Incantation anyone? Great job on the free +50 energy boosts I'm now getting, really great

)

HappinessFilter · Apr 09, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Reading all of the posts on this particular topic, i've noticed one major difference between a "PvP" individual, and a "PvE" individual. Sure they nerf our gimmicky crap that we used to rub out the easy wins, we complain for a bit, but we move on and look for other options to exhaust. While a PvE'er will sit there with the bar they have been using for 5+ months, and not know what to do.

Use what little cognitive power your deity gave you, and come up with something else. Each new installment of guild wars gives you not only all these leet places to kill monsters, but it gives you MOAR skills.

And if we are going to keep bringing up things that were nerfed like over 9,000 years ago. I want OoB boon prots, and my Nolani Wand back.

Yes, they appear to favor PvP'ers more, but when was the last time they held competitions worth $100k IRL cash moneys for PvE? Never, and if that day to ever come, anet will cease to have a PvP community, and in its place will be a legion of wammo's.

True Story.

Stockholm · Apr 09, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Hopefully GW2 will be better balanced regarding monster skill bars so that the skill balances needed for PvP don't have such a negative effect on the PvE game.
Then nerfs will effect the monsters the same way as human players.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Apr 09, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I think the knowledge gained from this thread is as follows:

PVP People think that Anet listens to PVE people and screws them over.

PVE People think that Anet listens to PVP people and screws them over.

Correlation: Both sides are equally screwed over. And blame each other for it, instead of Anet.

DunedainJedi · Apr 09, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

ANET listens to players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since When?

j/k

PvE gets more content, but PvP is used to determine nerfs. I'm not sure if there is a better way to do that. Unless ANET just makes PvP nerfs not effect PvE.

crimsonfilms · Apr 09, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

If there is an official A.Net board named "The Supreme Board of Regents Ensuring Balanced PvE Play (Lol)" and they made a rule saying that "If a team of 3-4 players with an MM can finish a whole mission built for 8 people, they will be summoned and tried for broken MM skill abuse and will be e-bitchslapped if found guilty", then MM is broken.

More useless reply please.
At least, take time to think about your questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Based on my post above, let's say PvE is Sparta.
There are no broken skills in Sparta.

thanks for proving my points (emphasis on plural).

Request - can we get off the '300' thing
ad nauseam

Bryant Again · Apr 09, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

I think the knowledge gained from this thread is as follows:

PVP People think that Anet listens to PVE people and screws them over.

PVE People think that Anet listens to PVP people and screws them over.

Correlation: Both sides are equally screwed over. And blame each other for it, instead of Anet.

I can't really recall of any balancing issues made to PvE that pissed off that PvP community.

I can, however, blame ANet for it all. I hope skills have different functions for both PvE and PvP in Guild Wars 2, because balancing them is hell.

I also agree that the 300 references need to stop. It's beginning to lose its cool.

samcobra · Apr 09, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

ANET doesn't care about PvE because they've already made all the content they need there and have fully succeeded in making it poorly and making it imbalanced. See here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10139186

PvP, on the other hand, requires balance for fair competition and so needs ANET to monitor it.

However, since the majority of players are PvErs and ANET wants to please them, they cater primarily to the PvErs and waste time with useless crap to occupy their clouded grind-happy minds instead of actually implementing much needed game mechanics. Seriously, stuff like double scrolls weekend? Who gives a shit?

tomcruisejr · Apr 09, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

More useless reply please.
At least, take time to think about your questions.
ad nauseam

That's not useless. Obviously you didn't get the point.

EternalTempest · Apr 09, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

This thread is in danger to falling in to the pve vs pvp falme wars = Closed

Anet has made a game that designed for pve, and pvp. They are trying to juggle both sides to keep them happy.

When you play only 1 way.. pve only or pvp only as example, when something changes / effects the specific way due to the "other" camp. I can see who you feel that it was "targeted" at you.

Has anyone noticed that anet has posted upcoming skill changes ahead of time and more importantly there telling you why they are changing them (reasons) on the forums. Some are pvp issue, some are pve issues, some are both. Before they did the change and went "surprise" then there was much hate till the rep's posted umm here's why some of the time.

Do I like all changes.. no, when AOE was first changed I created a monk and put my ele on rest for a bit. When I adapted to the change, I came up with what I feel is a nice fire build and even get compliments on my build / nuking ability and counts on things running away from certain skills.

This game since the original beta has so many drastic changes, did anyone expect to not keep changing?

Each player when they start GW, finds what style of characters and jobs they like to play and what modes they play. Saying X or Y sucks actually means you don't like X or Y, not that the other sucks.

(Jeff Spain radio interview) with mentioned trying to keep both pve and pvp camps happy and there trying.

I think a lot of what they learned here in GW1 will be put in to practice in GW2 with this central theme. Allow you to play the way you want to play but make it easier so they can keep both camps happy by having some separation.

Eldin · Apr 09, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Skill balances, PvP.

Everything else, PvE (as it should be

).

ca_aok · Apr 09, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

If you look at people's reasoning's behind why Searing Flames SHOULDNT have been nerfed, and why AoE skills/spells SHOULDNT have been nerfed, you will quickly see reasoning why PvE crowds might get overlooked.

I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find PvP players who didn't want SF nerfed, for equally stupid reasons. Besides, there will always be people who want to 1 hit k/o monsters and such in PvE, that isn't the discussion at hand.

Age · Apr 09, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

When it come to skills I would say it is 50/50 although a little towards the PvP players as certain build get stale or over powered at times.The place that Anet needs to listen to when it comes to PvE is how the nerf areas in the game and AI changes.The Mob monsters should be a little stupid and not smart like Humans.The reason they do this is because of farming and those who legitimatly as opposed to the botters.Then there is the drop rate or possibly increase it.

When it come down to the SR change as it was broken as others say it is like the Knight/Ascalon armour as it was broken untill about over a year they fixed it maybe somethings are meant to be broken.You need to look at it from both angles skills PvP,Areas AI PvE.